At the end of the day, the West and their puppets got Slavs to murder 1,000,000 Slavs, and isolate Russia from Europe, while subjugating all of Europe to an expanded NATO occupation. It could easily have been a ‘velvet divorce’ such as Czech and Slovak. My only prayers is that mothers and sons of the dead will know their true enemy, and never forget.
At the end of the day, the West and their puppets got Slavs to murder 1,000,000 Slavs, and isolate Russia from Europe, while subjugating all of Europe to an expanded NATO occupation. It could easily have been a ‘velvet divorce’ such as Czech and Slovak. My only prayers is that mothers and sons of the dead will know their true enemy, and never forget.
He who laughs last, laughs longest. Let's see how people think about RAND after their advice has led the US to defeat and the bums now squatting on the sidewalks of Santa Monica evict the formerly rich from their seaside condos.
"They" always want to bite off as big a chunk as they can, empower an extremist, based-on-hate minority, and let it rip. Think: Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. Czechia and Slovakia are the exception. I wonder why?
I am a Czech and know why: the Czechs love their"hospodas" aka bars. If there is a problem like an aggression towards them, they go into hospoda and discuss what to do. By the time, they are done with the discussion, they are either taken over by someone or the war does not happen. Almost 400 years under the Habsburgs taught the Czechs patience and how not to violently react. The culture and language survived in the mountains of Bohemia. Remember our poet president Vaclav Havel who sat in a commie jail and then came out to lead the country. Perhaps the world needs to take a lesson from the Czechs. I do wish that they get rid of the current war monger narcissist masquerading as the president. This is partly sarcasm.
Interesting, thanks! I tried to like your comment, but the system won't respond, for some reason.
However, when Vaclav Havel assumed power, he seemed to have the typical neocon, neoliberal, pro-US, pro-US-warmaking attitude of the typical European "leader" groomed by evil US interests. I found him very lacking, indeed. If he actually was better than that, I'd be happy to be disproven.
The psychopathy of the Western 'leadership' caste knows no limits. It is notable that not one single Western leader has ever been indicted, let alone convicted, for all the illegal war of choice started in the past decades and before.
There are plenty of anti-war activists and truth-speakers languishing in Western jails though.
This is not something that is upon the Russians to change.
Yes, the example of Czechoslovakia should have been promoted but instead the Warmongers took the stand and won the day. The sacrifice made in blood and utter terror and destruction is horrendous. Sadly, mankind forgets too often…
Ukraine is fundamentally an anti-Russia and can be nothing else, because if it is not an anti-Russia, then very quickly it will be reabsorbed into Russia, as there is nothing there other than hatred for Russia to build a state around.
So the options are either a single Russian state and no Ukraine, or constant war and hatred.
The West is effectively trying to create the same situation as between India and Pakistan.
Pakistan is an artificial entity that was put together originally and still exists primarily to keep India in check. It was given/allowed to develop nukes once India became a nuclear power for that same reason. And it works -- India is not really a great power.
Same strategy here. Which is why you see this ratcheting up rhetoric about Ukraine getting nukes. It is portrayed as the narco-fuhrer going into full Scarface-final-scene mode, but that, for some weird reason, assumes Zelensky is in fact acting independently here. Why anyone would just assume that, I don't understand....
Your logic fails and you have not all facts about Ukraine.
1. If the hate is so fundamental, why on earth would you incorporate it to Russia?
2. Ukraine is divided by many ethnics some of them leaning to Russia. The ”hate” was created and could be traced to the western part of Ukraine.
3. Strategy of tension is well known - so is US modus operandi.
Still, sane people should have spoken about the possibility to divide Ukraine or simply let loose Luhansk and Donetsk early on. This ”solution” only ended with loosers on both sides. What good do you think Russian and Ukrainian mothers think off in the graveyards?
Georgia has rejected the "west". It formerly worked with bribes of worthless thieves.... but you fucking know this, don't you? What's your angle? British or nato troll? Angry communist? Something else?
Hardly. If I were a troll sent by some nameless intelligence agency, there would be thousands like me, flooding the comment section and otherwise drowning out the conversation. Not a feral cat who posts three days after the article dropped because he cannot be bothered. Fact is, nobody of influence and authority cares about this place or the conversations people here have.
But tell yourself otherwise, if it makes you feel better.
No. With the exception of a tiny sliver of territory in the far West "Ukraine" was always deeply Russian. The US's project since 2004 has been to fund extremist nationalist fakery, to put control over Ukraine into the hands of a highly unrepresentative nazi minority and to spend whatever it cost to try to break the Russianness of Ukraine. They've been at that project for 20 years and, after the nazi takeover in 2014, have managed to really pick up the pace. Killing 15,000 Ukrainians who opposed them helped a lot, and then marinating youth in schools (if you're a teacher and you oppose them you got arrested and killed) with nationalist propaganda also helped a lot.
Today's "Ukraine" is a broken society. The only good news is that as Russia takes over territories the people in those territories have ceased pretending they are anti-Russian (which they had to do to survive, much as Jews in the Third Reich had to pretend to be gentiles) and have gone back to feeling they are Russian.
>It could easily have been a ‘velvet divorce’ such as Czech and Slovak.
Not really.
Ukraine can only exist as an anti-Russia, while Slovakia has never really defined itself as an anti-Czechia.
There are superficial similarities here, but with a very important difference.
Ukraine is a separate thing from Russia because of the collapse of Rus and the Mongol invasions, and then the land ended up under Polish rule for several centuries.
Slovakia is a separate thing from Czechia because when the Hungarians conquered the Pannonian plain and destroyed the old Great Moravia, what is now Slovakia remained under direct Hungarian rule. Meanwhile what is now Czechia, which if you look on the map, is neatly surrounded by mountain ranges from all sides, developed separately on its own, and later on came under direct Habsburg rule, and was more Germanized.
But overall it's a very different situation because nobody really cares about Slovakia and Czechia -- those are small places of no strategic importance. Meanwhile Russia is the richest land on the planet, and Ukraine is the richest part of Russia. Which guarantees plenty of outside meddling, dating back to the Polish trying to make the modern Ukraine and Belarus territories Catholic, then continuing with the Austrians stoking Ukrainian nationalism in its infancy in the 19th century, the Germans continuing it in WWI and WWII, and then CIA taking over in the 1940s.
And it is precisely because Czechoslovakia was small and insignificant and the Bohemian/Moravian Czech core also didn't exist as an independent country until a century ago, while Russia is, well, Russia, that relationships are good between Czechs and Slovaks while Ukrainian nationalists have this vicious genocidal hatred towards Russia.
Since there is no substance to Ukrainian nationalism, if you do not stoke it actively, it will fade on its own and the gravitational pull of the Russian cultural influence, Russia being a great power and an independent civilization center, will quickly reabsorb Ukraine. Which is what was happening in the 18th-19th century and then in the second half of the 20th century, and had it not been for the wars and the internal Ukrainization campaigns in between, we would likely not be here.
Not all of Ukraine ended up under Polish rule. Only West and Central parts did for any sognificant time and despite that they managed to retain their Russian identity.
There are three different parts. The East of Ukraine (and Odessa) where most people talk, feel and behave as Russians. The Middle of Ukraine, where there is an independent dialect, but there is no seperate culture, religion or history, which is the Russian one (and the birthplace of Russia). And then the West, which is with different dialect, different religion, different history, different traditions and they hate the Poles and Russians (due to the things in the 20th century).
Naw. I view - in a very general and abstract holistic way - Russia continuously gaining "strength" for 20+ years, and into the future. In comparison to the Atlanticists, its No-Contest.
No....what lazy ass crap. At the end of the day, the US and nato lost long-term prestige and are trapped with a dying reserve currency and a shitty, de-industrialized washed-up capitalist economy.
This is the underlying dynamic of it all sure they managed to destroy stuff, but that’s pretty much the norm the difference between now and 20 years ago that they’re significant forces to pick things up and rebuild them and make sure they remain safe
I keep on telling the Ukrainians to wake up to who really did that to them and the Russians and, why-khazars. Same in Palestine. I keep on hoping that all the graves with yellow and blue flags and their men/women in those graves, will wake them up and make them really angry. REVENGE IS A GOOD THING IN THIS CASE.
At the end of the day, the West and their puppets got Slavs to murder 1,000,000 Slavs, and isolate Russia from Europe, while subjugating all of Europe to an expanded NATO occupation. It could easily have been a ‘velvet divorce’ such as Czech and Slovak. My only prayers is that mothers and sons of the dead will know their true enemy, and never forget.
Yep: for NATO and Rand Corporation, it's all "mission:accomplished". So sick.
Well, the main mission was regime change in Russia caused by economic collapse and international isolation, so mission not accomplished.
He who laughs last, laughs longest. Let's see how people think about RAND after their advice has led the US to defeat and the bums now squatting on the sidewalks of Santa Monica evict the formerly rich from their seaside condos.
"They" always want to bite off as big a chunk as they can, empower an extremist, based-on-hate minority, and let it rip. Think: Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. Czechia and Slovakia are the exception. I wonder why?
I am a Czech and know why: the Czechs love their"hospodas" aka bars. If there is a problem like an aggression towards them, they go into hospoda and discuss what to do. By the time, they are done with the discussion, they are either taken over by someone or the war does not happen. Almost 400 years under the Habsburgs taught the Czechs patience and how not to violently react. The culture and language survived in the mountains of Bohemia. Remember our poet president Vaclav Havel who sat in a commie jail and then came out to lead the country. Perhaps the world needs to take a lesson from the Czechs. I do wish that they get rid of the current war monger narcissist masquerading as the president. This is partly sarcasm.
Interesting, thanks! I tried to like your comment, but the system won't respond, for some reason.
However, when Vaclav Havel assumed power, he seemed to have the typical neocon, neoliberal, pro-US, pro-US-warmaking attitude of the typical European "leader" groomed by evil US interests. I found him very lacking, indeed. If he actually was better than that, I'd be happy to be disproven.
Well said.
The psychopathy of the Western 'leadership' caste knows no limits. It is notable that not one single Western leader has ever been indicted, let alone convicted, for all the illegal war of choice started in the past decades and before.
There are plenty of anti-war activists and truth-speakers languishing in Western jails though.
This is not something that is upon the Russians to change.
Yes, the example of Czechoslovakia should have been promoted but instead the Warmongers took the stand and won the day. The sacrifice made in blood and utter terror and destruction is horrendous. Sadly, mankind forgets too often…
Not possible, sadly.
Ukraine is fundamentally an anti-Russia and can be nothing else, because if it is not an anti-Russia, then very quickly it will be reabsorbed into Russia, as there is nothing there other than hatred for Russia to build a state around.
So the options are either a single Russian state and no Ukraine, or constant war and hatred.
The West is effectively trying to create the same situation as between India and Pakistan.
Pakistan is an artificial entity that was put together originally and still exists primarily to keep India in check. It was given/allowed to develop nukes once India became a nuclear power for that same reason. And it works -- India is not really a great power.
Same strategy here. Which is why you see this ratcheting up rhetoric about Ukraine getting nukes. It is portrayed as the narco-fuhrer going into full Scarface-final-scene mode, but that, for some weird reason, assumes Zelensky is in fact acting independently here. Why anyone would just assume that, I don't understand....
Your logic fails and you have not all facts about Ukraine.
1. If the hate is so fundamental, why on earth would you incorporate it to Russia?
2. Ukraine is divided by many ethnics some of them leaning to Russia. The ”hate” was created and could be traced to the western part of Ukraine.
3. Strategy of tension is well known - so is US modus operandi.
Still, sane people should have spoken about the possibility to divide Ukraine or simply let loose Luhansk and Donetsk early on. This ”solution” only ended with loosers on both sides. What good do you think Russian and Ukrainian mothers think off in the graveyards?
"1. If the hate is so fundamental, why on earth would you incorporate it to Russia?
2. Ukraine is divided by many ethnics some of them leaning to Russia. The ”hate” was created and could be traced to the western part of Ukraine."
How did this work in the Caucasus?
Georgia has rejected the "west". It formerly worked with bribes of worthless thieves.... but you fucking know this, don't you? What's your angle? British or nato troll? Angry communist? Something else?
I was thinking of Chechnya and how it eventually was pacified, but you appear off you meds.
Aw geez. Feral Dumpster is back. I read about you yesterday at moon of alabama. You're a joke over there. You realize that, don't you?
So the best you can come up with is that fanbois and cheerleaders don't like me.
O noes! Whatever shall I do? Go on living my best life, I guess.
It's just an indication that you've got some angle but you don't have the guts to disclose what or who you are. A coward.
Hardly. If I were a troll sent by some nameless intelligence agency, there would be thousands like me, flooding the comment section and otherwise drowning out the conversation. Not a feral cat who posts three days after the article dropped because he cannot be bothered. Fact is, nobody of influence and authority cares about this place or the conversations people here have.
But tell yourself otherwise, if it makes you feel better.
Thank you - interesting thoughts !
"Ukraine is fundamentally an anti-Russia"
No. With the exception of a tiny sliver of territory in the far West "Ukraine" was always deeply Russian. The US's project since 2004 has been to fund extremist nationalist fakery, to put control over Ukraine into the hands of a highly unrepresentative nazi minority and to spend whatever it cost to try to break the Russianness of Ukraine. They've been at that project for 20 years and, after the nazi takeover in 2014, have managed to really pick up the pace. Killing 15,000 Ukrainians who opposed them helped a lot, and then marinating youth in schools (if you're a teacher and you oppose them you got arrested and killed) with nationalist propaganda also helped a lot.
Today's "Ukraine" is a broken society. The only good news is that as Russia takes over territories the people in those territories have ceased pretending they are anti-Russian (which they had to do to survive, much as Jews in the Third Reich had to pretend to be gentiles) and have gone back to feeling they are Russian.
I think you and GM are saying the same thing in different ways.
>It could easily have been a ‘velvet divorce’ such as Czech and Slovak.
Not really.
Ukraine can only exist as an anti-Russia, while Slovakia has never really defined itself as an anti-Czechia.
There are superficial similarities here, but with a very important difference.
Ukraine is a separate thing from Russia because of the collapse of Rus and the Mongol invasions, and then the land ended up under Polish rule for several centuries.
Slovakia is a separate thing from Czechia because when the Hungarians conquered the Pannonian plain and destroyed the old Great Moravia, what is now Slovakia remained under direct Hungarian rule. Meanwhile what is now Czechia, which if you look on the map, is neatly surrounded by mountain ranges from all sides, developed separately on its own, and later on came under direct Habsburg rule, and was more Germanized.
But overall it's a very different situation because nobody really cares about Slovakia and Czechia -- those are small places of no strategic importance. Meanwhile Russia is the richest land on the planet, and Ukraine is the richest part of Russia. Which guarantees plenty of outside meddling, dating back to the Polish trying to make the modern Ukraine and Belarus territories Catholic, then continuing with the Austrians stoking Ukrainian nationalism in its infancy in the 19th century, the Germans continuing it in WWI and WWII, and then CIA taking over in the 1940s.
And it is precisely because Czechoslovakia was small and insignificant and the Bohemian/Moravian Czech core also didn't exist as an independent country until a century ago, while Russia is, well, Russia, that relationships are good between Czechs and Slovaks while Ukrainian nationalists have this vicious genocidal hatred towards Russia.
Since there is no substance to Ukrainian nationalism, if you do not stoke it actively, it will fade on its own and the gravitational pull of the Russian cultural influence, Russia being a great power and an independent civilization center, will quickly reabsorb Ukraine. Which is what was happening in the 18th-19th century and then in the second half of the 20th century, and had it not been for the wars and the internal Ukrainization campaigns in between, we would likely not be here.
In this you are right.
Not all of Ukraine ended up under Polish rule. Only West and Central parts did for any sognificant time and despite that they managed to retain their Russian identity.
There are three different parts. The East of Ukraine (and Odessa) where most people talk, feel and behave as Russians. The Middle of Ukraine, where there is an independent dialect, but there is no seperate culture, religion or history, which is the Russian one (and the birthplace of Russia). And then the West, which is with different dialect, different religion, different history, different traditions and they hate the Poles and Russians (due to the things in the 20th century).
Yes. The west has won this war.
It’s not over
Naw. I view - in a very general and abstract holistic way - Russia continuously gaining "strength" for 20+ years, and into the future. In comparison to the Atlanticists, its No-Contest.
Man.... You are seriously depressed over nato's loss and the decline of America, aren't you? Must have shrunk your dick.
No....what lazy ass crap. At the end of the day, the US and nato lost long-term prestige and are trapped with a dying reserve currency and a shitty, de-industrialized washed-up capitalist economy.
This is the underlying dynamic of it all sure they managed to destroy stuff, but that’s pretty much the norm the difference between now and 20 years ago that they’re significant forces to pick things up and rebuild them and make sure they remain safe
Like French and Germans know ?
I keep on telling the Ukrainians to wake up to who really did that to them and the Russians and, why-khazars. Same in Palestine. I keep on hoping that all the graves with yellow and blue flags and their men/women in those graves, will wake them up and make them really angry. REVENGE IS A GOOD THING IN THIS CASE.
Humans are herd animals, as easily led as any sheep.