A quick note on acronyms: some people have used RuAF to describe the airforce, though that more accurately describes Russian Armed Forces. Others call the airforce VKS, but in Russian transliteration that actually stands for Russian Aerospace Forces, under which the Airforce does operate, but includes the umbrella of the missile and space forces as well. The Airforce alone is just the VVS.
This, along with all the other small wounds the Ukuleles (aka NATO) have inflicted, wouldn’t have happened if Russia took the gloves off last year when they should’ve and flattened Ukraine with massive carpet bombing and missle strikes.
From looking at The Mi-8MTPR1 and without doing any further research, I can't see how it would even have ejection seats. If it does, they it would seem either the entire front portion (nose) of the copter might form a large two man ejection capsule, but where is the parachute stored if so? The other option would be seats that fire forward through the window openings. Regarding the Sukhoi jet, it would also seem that even if it was a Buk, their radar would have picked up that they'd been engaged before the missile struck, wouldn't it?
They likely had some sort of external sensor pod. I’m not even sure it would have been radar, asea is a better bet. We have built external pods around it for f/a-18 and f15 that are designed to be modular. I could absolutely see them mounting something like that on the migs.
This event was tragic and reflects a pattern of Russian military planning negilence. The Russians get caught napping and then rapidly assess and adapt, but only after some damage is done. This was yet another asymetric Ukrainian attack likely planned months in advance. I doubt it is repeatable. There is seemingly a lack of adequate paranoia in the Russian DOD for some reason. Why?? Any Russian aircraft near the border of Ukraine, and certainly Kiev, is at great risk from at least AD. What the Ukrainains , with massive NATO assistance, excel at is identifying these tactical weak points to exploit via a one time asymetrical attack planned well in advance. Some people might just call this part of war. You must understand, these attacks reveal a great deal about Ukraine to the Russians. This all seems to me as part of the "slow to harness, fast to ride" nature of the Russians. They do seem to like to get punched in the mouth before taking out their hammers. Russia will need to get more aggressive and continue raising the pain dial for NATO. The massive destruction of the artillery and fuel depots in Western Ukraine over the past 2 days as well the the glide bomb attacks at the front have taken an enormous toll on Ukraine, and they are hitting back now in the only ways they can. Russia also clearly needs to take steps to sterilize the border areas and minimize these risks. Seems to be their Achilles heal in this conflict, and its time to put a stop to it. My nature is to be more aggressive, but you cannot afford to get emotional. Trust the Russians will figure this all out and eliminate the threat.
The Russians develop a package and tactics that allow them to deliver larger munitions while keeping their assets safe. After a few weeks or months, the enemy comes up with a counter tactic.
Perhaps it might only be a one off ambush, but enough to cause the cautious Russians to pause their efforts which were obviously bearing fruit.
Sadly, this is the nature of war. It's not a video game, that you can press reset and start a new game. Maybe the important lesson is that Russia was hurting Ukraine, so they must redouble their efforts. Learn all they can about what when wrong. Standup 3 new, improved, units to take the place of the one that has fallen and double the number of bombs dropped in support of defeating the West.
Another 'simple' explanation could be good ol' complacency ... "we're operating over friendly territory" ... "we've run this operation a dozen times in the last week with not a single siting of enemy threats" ... "I could fly this mission in my sleep" ...
If the group's security depends on a high degree of precision then any slack off in operational procedures by one (or multiple) of the units could spell doom for the entire group if the enemy is able to capitalize on the error.
The VVS has flown hundreds (thousands?) of these types of sorties without (as far as we know) this level of losses; hopefully this will come down to a case of complacency and/or catastrophic equipment failure.
On the other hand, if this is a new AFU/NATO capability (or tactic) then we may see a few more of these losses before Russia adapts to the new threat. As others have commented ... "that's war".
This ambush could also be from multiple sources, after extensive intelligence gathering by western satellites and air systems they likely found a weak point, most likely a route that the Russian Air forces used on multiple occasions and set up a kill zone there. A mistake the US air force made over Vietnam, where they were sending their B52s on the same routes over and over, and then Vietnam just shot them down easily since on the way back they were defenceless. The Air Force had to be yelled at by the General or I think even the president to change tactics and stop using the same routes like they're migrating birds.
A captive senior officer of the Armed Forces of Ukraine captured in the area of the Zaporozhye Front told an interesting version of the disappearance of Zaluzhny and Syrsky.
According to the colonel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Zelensky is conducting an internal investigation into suspicions of Zaluzhny and Syrsky in a military coup and seizure of power. In this regard, both are temporarily in informational and physical isolation, but within the headquarters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
⚠️#Ukraine - In Pavlograd and Khmelnytsky, #NATO had set up giant ammunition depots, available to the Kiev entity, which were pulverized by strikes🇷🇺
What deplored Yuri Kasyanov, former adviser to Petro Poroshenko and well-known Ukronazi propagandist...
🇷🇺Of the 300,000 reservists mobilized at the end of last year, 150,000 are still on training grounds in Western #Russia.
Ukrainian troops have only 3 weeks of training, Russians have 6 months...
▶️Possible offensive towards Belgorod in preparation with intent to break into Fed territory. from #Russia from 15 to 20 km
➡️Accumulation of troops and equipment in this area since April 10
▪️Several units🇺🇦 withdrawn from the front to be reinforced and supplemented for this purpose, such as the 67th mechanized brigade of the Pravy Sektor (ex DUK)
▪️20,000 regular soldiers & 10,000 members of the territorial defense awaiting commitment
This, along with all the other small wounds the Ukuleles (aka NATO) have inflicted, wouldn’t have happened if Russia took the gloves off last year when they should’ve and flattened Ukraine with massive carpet bombing and missle strikes.
From looking at The Mi-8MTPR1 and without doing any further research, I can't see how it would even have ejection seats. If it does, they it would seem either the entire front portion (nose) of the copter might form a large two man ejection capsule, but where is the parachute stored if so? The other option would be seats that fire forward through the window openings. Regarding the Sukhoi jet, it would also seem that even if it was a Buk, their radar would have picked up that they'd been engaged before the missile struck, wouldn't it?
They likely had some sort of external sensor pod. I’m not even sure it would have been radar, asea is a better bet. We have built external pods around it for f/a-18 and f15 that are designed to be modular. I could absolutely see them mounting something like that on the migs.
Complacency kills.
This event was tragic and reflects a pattern of Russian military planning negilence. The Russians get caught napping and then rapidly assess and adapt, but only after some damage is done. This was yet another asymetric Ukrainian attack likely planned months in advance. I doubt it is repeatable. There is seemingly a lack of adequate paranoia in the Russian DOD for some reason. Why?? Any Russian aircraft near the border of Ukraine, and certainly Kiev, is at great risk from at least AD. What the Ukrainains , with massive NATO assistance, excel at is identifying these tactical weak points to exploit via a one time asymetrical attack planned well in advance. Some people might just call this part of war. You must understand, these attacks reveal a great deal about Ukraine to the Russians. This all seems to me as part of the "slow to harness, fast to ride" nature of the Russians. They do seem to like to get punched in the mouth before taking out their hammers. Russia will need to get more aggressive and continue raising the pain dial for NATO. The massive destruction of the artillery and fuel depots in Western Ukraine over the past 2 days as well the the glide bomb attacks at the front have taken an enormous toll on Ukraine, and they are hitting back now in the only ways they can. Russia also clearly needs to take steps to sterilize the border areas and minimize these risks. Seems to be their Achilles heal in this conflict, and its time to put a stop to it. My nature is to be more aggressive, but you cannot afford to get emotional. Trust the Russians will figure this all out and eliminate the threat.
Commanding/Obeying stupid overconfident tactics. Better now than later, except for the crewmen & family☦️🙏
This is becoming a clusterfuck.
My guess is that it was an F-22 using MiG 29 as cover.
The Russians develop a package and tactics that allow them to deliver larger munitions while keeping their assets safe. After a few weeks or months, the enemy comes up with a counter tactic.
Perhaps it might only be a one off ambush, but enough to cause the cautious Russians to pause their efforts which were obviously bearing fruit.
Sadly, this is the nature of war. It's not a video game, that you can press reset and start a new game. Maybe the important lesson is that Russia was hurting Ukraine, so they must redouble their efforts. Learn all they can about what when wrong. Standup 3 new, improved, units to take the place of the one that has fallen and double the number of bombs dropped in support of defeating the West.
You know the idea of having a war of attrition so far makes sense, I mean I get it.
But you know I’m thinking Russia needs to change it up.
And it’s about time to wrap it up in Ukraine.
Russia is gonna mess around and fool around until the West has enough time to set up something really ugly.
Finish this Bakhmut and get Prigozhin outta there.
Another 'simple' explanation could be good ol' complacency ... "we're operating over friendly territory" ... "we've run this operation a dozen times in the last week with not a single siting of enemy threats" ... "I could fly this mission in my sleep" ...
If the group's security depends on a high degree of precision then any slack off in operational procedures by one (or multiple) of the units could spell doom for the entire group if the enemy is able to capitalize on the error.
The VVS has flown hundreds (thousands?) of these types of sorties without (as far as we know) this level of losses; hopefully this will come down to a case of complacency and/or catastrophic equipment failure.
On the other hand, if this is a new AFU/NATO capability (or tactic) then we may see a few more of these losses before Russia adapts to the new threat. As others have commented ... "that's war".
This ambush could also be from multiple sources, after extensive intelligence gathering by western satellites and air systems they likely found a weak point, most likely a route that the Russian Air forces used on multiple occasions and set up a kill zone there. A mistake the US air force made over Vietnam, where they were sending their B52s on the same routes over and over, and then Vietnam just shot them down easily since on the way back they were defenceless. The Air Force had to be yelled at by the General or I think even the president to change tactics and stop using the same routes like they're migrating birds.
Wipe tm out those naps !!!!!!
If Russia ddoesot retaliate hard they will have a rough future!!!!
Nazis&NewCos do not forgive.
A captive senior officer of the Armed Forces of Ukraine captured in the area of the Zaporozhye Front told an interesting version of the disappearance of Zaluzhny and Syrsky.
According to the colonel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Zelensky is conducting an internal investigation into suspicions of Zaluzhny and Syrsky in a military coup and seizure of power. In this regard, both are temporarily in informational and physical isolation, but within the headquarters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
⚠️#Ukraine - In Pavlograd and Khmelnytsky, #NATO had set up giant ammunition depots, available to the Kiev entity, which were pulverized by strikes🇷🇺
What deplored Yuri Kasyanov, former adviser to Petro Poroshenko and well-known Ukronazi propagandist...
🇷🇺Of the 300,000 reservists mobilized at the end of last year, 150,000 are still on training grounds in Western #Russia.
Ukrainian troops have only 3 weeks of training, Russians have 6 months...
▶️Possible offensive towards Belgorod in preparation with intent to break into Fed territory. from #Russia from 15 to 20 km
➡️Accumulation of troops and equipment in this area since April 10
▪️Several units🇺🇦 withdrawn from the front to be reinforced and supplemented for this purpose, such as the 67th mechanized brigade of the Pravy Sektor (ex DUK)
▪️20,000 regular soldiers & 10,000 members of the territorial defense awaiting commitment
Source: https://twitter.com/JacquesFrre2
A former French military, reporting on Donbass since 2014, very accurate
Strange, indeed. Like with the Moskwa. What about sabotage? Some mechanics at the airfield placing bombs?